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Derek Phillips
February 16, 2007, 11:59pm Quote Report to Moderator
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Thanks again for a wonderful session on Tuesday, February 16. It was especially great to see how the SUNY students took the simple movement phrase and developed fairly sophisticated short dance works from them.

Both during and after the session, we had some interesting conversations about how confusing spatial relationships can be when working interactively. Should the students or instructor mirror each other or automatically reverse the movement as it's being learned? Movement to the right or left can be pretty easy to figure out, but movement towards and away from the camera is less easy to read. Diagonals can be a disaster. I don't have any answers, but a few quick ideas popped into my brain. A marker that is common to both spaces is certainly helpful - a chair or a plant or windows. (Most elementary gyms have small orange cones that are used to define space.) It might also be helpful if the instructor and students wore a glove or a piece of cloth tied on one wrist that could identify right and left. We even had a brief conversation about marking the floor, that could be helpful for learning patterns through the space.

I was also intriged by SUNY's use of the white board as a combination projection screen and place to "draw" the movement in another version of the on-screen manipulation technique. Although the reflection made it difficult to see from our end, the idea made perfectly good sense. Maybe one day we'll invent the perfect white board.

As I continue my own interactive work in other settings, I'm curious to see how these ideas play out.
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hasuny
February 17, 2007, 10:00pm Quote Report to Moderator
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I think your idea of finding an object or area of reference in the room (aka. windows, orange cones) would definitely help to lessen the confusion between the two classrooms in regard to direction.  Being fairly uncoordinated myself, I found it extremely helpful if the 'instructor' turned so that their back faced me while they demonstrated certain dance sequences.  Once I was able to mimick the moves, it was less daunting to then dance along with them while he/she faced me.  

Hand signals such as an open hand, showing movement forward and a closed hand showing movement backwards may be helpful.  The same might work for diagonal movements as well.  

One suggestion I would like to make in response to working with children and this new technology, is the notion of being singled or called out while dancing from an instructor in the other classroom.  While this may seem like a logical way to communicate, I feel it might create anxiety for kids (and adults!).  A better approach might be to ask for a volunteer to show a movement the 'right' or the 'wrong' way.  Or ask the other instructor to cue someone in his/her class in on a move.  It's a bit daunting being called out to come forward and demonstrate a move in front of the class from someone on a screen.  

Thanks, Holly
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mburSUNY
February 22, 2007, 4:30am Quote Report to Moderator
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Dance is a unique discipline when looking at Gardner's Multiple Intelligences. While dancers are commonly visual and kinesthetic learners (which creates teachers who naturally use kinesthetic and visual methods) we must not forget about the verbal learning. Because dancers in one space can not adjust themselves to visually see the movement in another (i.e. if I have the upper body movement of a phrase learned in my body but want to see the articulation and shape of the feet and lower-limbs, in a normal setting I can adjust myself to gain that infomration when the phrase is being shown. It is not so easy to do when cameras limit the angle and perception one might see. Perhaps part of the problem of spacing is due to newer dancers getting use to mirroring and reflecting with a camera, but the lack of our ability to adjust ourselves to "see" what we need to "see" creates a greater challange. This is where a common language would be important. Although I didn't notice it at the time, Laban Movement Analysis has created a common language, one that I now look for.
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chilSUNY
February 24, 2007, 5:38pm Quote Report to Moderator
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Using recognizable objects around the room and desriptive words really help with the concept of space.  This I feel helps non dances understand what you would like to see.  It also makes it more understanding for them as well.  Using hand signals really help with the visual sense.  I myself am a visual learner so seeing it really helps me.
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kspasunybrockport
February 27, 2007, 1:26am Quote Report to Moderator
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I think that helping children really become aware of their own body and the way our mind is able to manipulate it to move, is a wonderful way to show children the control that they have over their own body and their kinosphere.
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lgiasuny
February 27, 2007, 1:52am Quote Report to Moderator
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I think wearing a marker on a wrist to indicate right and left would be a great idea.  It is one thing if you are primarily a dancer and are used to dance vocabulary and the language of the art.  However, most of the students in our Arts for Children program are not dancers, so grasping these concepts might be a bit more challenging for them, so a marker, I think, would be a great tool for them to use to help them, as well as the dancers, work well with the technology.
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KimSUNY
February 27, 2007, 4:56am Quote Report to Moderator
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I also agree, that making a marker on the wrist to indicate left and right would help spacial relationships for children learning on the tpl.  I feel that there should also be a discussion between the teacher and the class while doing interactive activities so they understand that because they are facing one another things will be opposite.  Also, teachers should be able to accomodate students by turning a different way and taking the time to explain directions more thoroughly for students to make everything clearer.  
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ahagsuny
February 27, 2007, 3:02pm Quote Report to Moderator
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I believe for non dancers it is a must to have at least one demonstrator facing back so there is no confusion about which direction to go.  When dance does not come naturally and the words "right" and "left" seem to be phased out when it LOOKS as though the opposite arm/leg is moving, having a person to imitate is needed.  It lessens confusion about which way to go and gives the dancer the chance to work on the actual movement..the curves of the spine, the diagonal of the arm, etc.  For people more familiar with dance a glove or a scarf around one arm would be helpful, as long as the teacher referances it often enough and correctly.  As long as the teacher does not solely rely on their movements to teach the students hundreds of miles away, but rather their voice and commands then the technological interaction will go as smoothly as possible.  
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James501
March 6, 2007, 9:57pm Quote Report to Moderator
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How can The TPL Model ó interactive coaching, web activities, and so forth ó be used when you work with children?

Children love technology. It would keep their attention. As with adult college students, I do not see a difference in how someone learns. If it is someone physically in a classroom or if it is someone using the interactive exchange. I work with children and they use computers in school to learn. What I can see they love it. It is hard to get them away from the computers after their time is up.

Web activities we did so far would be a great start to teach them beginning movements in dance.


Jim:)
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kmarsuny
March 6, 2007, 11:01pm Quote Report to Moderator
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Derek,
I agree with your observations.  It was confusing to figure which way to move. Again, I think of my aerobics classes and I think the best way to present the dance would be for the instructor to face us and the class would mirror the instructors movements.  It would be hard for the instructor but it would easier for the students who are trying to learn.
I also liked the idea of incorporating the white board for instructional purposes.
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Di Aldis
March 7, 2007, 3:41pm Quote Report to Moderator
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Good discussion so far - thanks to everyone who's chimed in.  It occured to me that the same concerns about orientation and perspective occurred when dancers moved off the proscenium stage and iinto different sites and venues. When the audience can sit on any side or even move around, there's no such thing as downstage or stage right or facing front.  That was a radical idea, and one of the more enduring ones that played out of the postmodern work in the '60's and '70's (although it was happeeming before then as well.)

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BhalSUNY
March 8, 2007, 4:08am Quote Report to Moderator
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This always seems to be an interesting topic with dance classes. In my dance studio where I teach we tend to have things in the room that we relate to the kids. When we are working with the right I will have the class wave to the child the farthest to the right, and repeat to the left. Sometimes we will also have the kids put a sticker on the right hand and refer to that hand as your sticker hand. That tends to help kids with their directions.
Brodie
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rronsuny
March 8, 2007, 7:13am Quote Report to Moderator
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I think there are other ways to use the technology. I think it would be very interesting to try and teach art using this tool and perhaps utilize the whiteboard more often (regarding the dance aspect) when correcting a studentís posture or position or something. After all, we do project the video onto a whiteboard at SUNY Brockport and I think it might be interesting to use. With children, it might be difficult to have them be serious and focused the first few times this technology is used. They will most likely be very excited about it and the fact that theyíre on screen somewhere, so I think that a couple simple dance lessons should be done. Perhaps even reviewing things they have done in classes before would help them get accustomed to the technology.
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catssuny
March 8, 2007, 4:15pm Quote Report to Moderator
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I know that there has been some comment in our class as to how this will be useful in disciplines other than dance.  I think that this is pretty clear!  Not only are there examples of how other arts areas have used on the tpl website, but when I started to think about it all sorts of possibilities came to mind.  For instance, imagine working with another group of students through a computer or TV srceen to plan and perform a creative drama exercise!  This could be used as a way to communicate with others or as a way for a classroom teacher to give her class an experience with a trained professional in a specific art form.  I think the possibilities are endless.  
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lfoxsuny
March 8, 2007, 4:18pm Quote Report to Moderator
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i feel it would be very easy to grasp children's attention with this form of communication.  However, the tricky thing would be maintaing it.  As a mature college student I did not feel as liable to behave in a certain matter because the instructor was not physically present.  Physical presence is very powerful and the instructors energy has to be strong to transfer over wave lengths, highways, biways, and wires in an effective manner...
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Di Aldis
March 12, 2007, 8:29pm Quote Report to Moderator
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Catssuny suggested that another use of the interactive work might be connecting two different groups of students with each other as they work on a joint or parallel assignment.  We did something like that with two groups of teachers who were hundreds of miles apart and created a short "theater of the hands" piece using the television monitor. You can see that on the lower left hand side of TPL homepage in the section titled "Dessert at Midday."

I think students, even young ones, adjust quickly to the interactive environment and work well with it even while they're still enchanted with the novelty of it. In addition to the teaching and modeling of curriculum we've seen in these exchanges, think of how this could help parents better understand what goes on in a dance class. Many K-12 parents only see the end-stage of performance - this would be a way to see more of the process through movies or webcasting in real/stored time.  

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James501
April 5, 2007, 7:58pm Quote Report to Moderator
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How can The TPL Model ó interactive coaching, web activities, and so forth ó be used when you work with children?

The interactive coaching, web activities can be used easily with children. Especially in todays class with the masks. By seeing Gloria and the other dancers wearing the masks, this  would keep the children's attention focused on what is being taught to them.  Children are intrigued by the unknown.
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catssuny
April 26, 2007, 12:06am Quote Report to Moderator
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Yeah, and we've also talked a lot about (and had the opportunity to try) using the web site as a way to follow up on the concepts and ideas taught as well as practice certain movements and movement phrases.  I've really enjoyed using the web site in this way and am sure that kids would too.  I can imagine a "performance lab computer" set up in a classroom with some open space around it and students using it to practice what they have learned and during their playtime.  Rather than having an artist come once and that being the end of the learning experience, students and keep going back to the material and working with it.  I think that is a wonderful perk to the interactive work!
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gloria mclean
May 9, 2007, 4:23am Quote Report to Moderator
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Gloria here.  Well, I guess I didn't see this thread until now. Sorry about that.

Relating to the kids:

I think that the class SUNY gave to the MN children proved that there really is a wonderful opening for this technology in teaching dance - and many other things - to kids.  I appreciated how you solved some spatial issues, which also have a big effect on keeping the attention and focus of the students. Like:
Using the placard - surprised us out of the expectation of seeing the realistic person
the masks - an intrigue to pull us in
the puppets
the stadium wave was terrific way to integrate the two groups and keep everyone alert
identifying right and left
I am also a fan of using mirror image for teaching, on and off the screen
the semicircle - keeps a sense of "in the room"
switching who is up front and trying to get all involved
the use of the "shh" gesture was brilliant!
mixing up the space with the three phrases of chorus, dragon and fish
using those images for the phrases instead of 1,2,3
the high five.

Since I usually teach adults these days, I was truly impressed with the range of your grasp of who you were addressing.  Well done!

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gloria mclean
May 9, 2007, 4:31am Quote Report to Moderator
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Directions in space:

IN a larger sense, I have been thinking about how it can become possible to do more sophisticated dimensional movement that is not always facing front.

Our "loops" were a little bit in that direction.

Today in the feedback session, we came onto that issue of visual orientation as a dominating mode in this technology.

I thought about the use of "instant replay".  then you could execute, say a 'run, jump, turn' kind of movement - and look at again together.

I thought of simple movements that start facing the screen, move a little , and return to the screen-as-front.  LIKE:

four people line up, 1-2-3-4  sitting on floor
1 and 3  rock onto the back and throw the legs up and shake the legs
just as 1 and 3 return to "front", 2 and 4 rock back and throw legs up
repeating a few times in tandem....

I guess as both the technical movement skills and the technological savvy increase, one can do more complex movements.

Diane Aldis, you probably have more experience with this. Any thoughts?
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gloria mclean
May 9, 2007, 5:20am Quote Report to Moderator
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Thinking about space:
Quoted from Di Aldis
Catssuny suggested that another use of the interactive work might be connecting two different groups of students with each other as they work on a joint or parallel assignment.  We did something like that with two groups of teachers who were hundreds of miles apart and created a short "theater of the hands" piece using the television monitor. You can see that on the lower left hand side of TPL homepage in the section titled "Dessert at Midday."


I just looked again at "Desert at Midday" and you should all look at this, if you haven't. It's a great example of the working together of the two locations, yes. But what delights me is that they have turned  the screen into an interactive, transgeographical puppet show in a box!

This is yet again a very cool way to maximize some of the characteristics of the medium: rather than trying to refer to a larger other space, they have pulled the activity down to the screen itself as the playing ground, using only hands as actors.  Really great, Diane!
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